A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Air Conditioning Expansion Valve R134a - R12 replacement kit So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. Very nice! Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. ambulance tailgate conversion The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. = R134a Charge Level. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. Expansion Valve for R134a? | Team Chevelle Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. Yes, this was a smokers car. A/C R12 to R134a Conversion Success | IH8MUD Forum Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. Its highest value is 1. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. Thanks for the input. I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? 1.5 ounces - hmmm. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. CLUTCH CYCLING SWITCH. The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. Answer: OK, I'll bite. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. Table 1 summarizes the technical characteristics of three potential R134a alternatives. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. gital control scheme. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. How is 1234yf different from . My turn to LOL - greasiesel! This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. System has been working fine for a year. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. (The .133 is the 300D Turbo).So, what does your compressor look like?B. For R12, its mineral oil. Compressor. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. This leads me to labor over every small decision. To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. PDF Tecumseh Guidelines for Utilization of R134a Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". R12 Expansion Valve with R134A charge? - Maverick Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. might be due to charge or different compressor and age. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. I have just bought gauges. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. Talk about what services you provide. And I already have so much time and money in this a/c project that I REFUSE to cut any corners as small as a TEV.It doesn't help that most people in the business (at least that I come in contact with, present company excluded, of course!) Its cylinders are colored white. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Moreso, it had been banned. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. As per their results . Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. #13. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! It won't be optimal, though. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? | NSX Prime R-134a XV for R-134a use. In short, NO! Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. 10,000BTU conduction heating? Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. R134a. Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. B. As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. I'm putting r12 back in my system, but all of the valves I can for the application (1990 jeep grand wagoneer) say r134a on them. With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. Your old hoses of course will not fit. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. R404a for freezing of product. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. Look deep into the fins. They plug all the time. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. Sense ells no existirem. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. It won't be optimal, though. These differences in the valve size can be attributed to the correlation of the cooling capacity with the enthalpy difference and the mass flow, which in . Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. hardly noticable. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. Stopleak is also risky. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance.

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